[East Timor has claimed its independence. How is the new nation viewed by its imposing neighbour, Indonesia? Tony Eastley speaks with Wimar Witoelar, who was spokesman for Indonesia's former president Abdurrahmin Wahid, and who is now a visiting professor of journalism at Deakin University, in Victoria. Compere: Tony Eastley Reporter: Tony Eastley.]

Tony Eastley: Wimar Witoelar, good evening and welcome to Lateline.

First of all, there are many people in Australia who would think Indonesians are very angry with the wresting away of East Timor, but generally speaking, many Indonesians are quite happy, is that correct?

Wimar Witoelar, Indonesian political commentator: It's correct because the people who oppress East Timor are basically people aligned with the Suharto regime and the majority of the Indonesian regime don't like the Suharto regime. That's why they deposed President Suharto back in 1998.

Of course, there are military elements and ultra-nationalist elements who still cannot get used to the idea that the East Timorese people deserve to be independent.

Tony Eastley: They're the people calling the shots in Jakarta at the moment. Do you think they will allow East Timor to be nurtured as a new, young nation or will they be interfering in its affairs?

Wimar Witoelar: First of all, they have to account to the Indonesian people. Indonesian people want East Timor to be free.

You may remember on February 29, President Wahid came to East Timor without any warships, just in a small cargo plane and apologised to the East Timorese people for the decades of oppression.

That reflects the Indonesia of tomorrow. Unfortunately now we have a government which harks back to the times of Suharto. It is like "Attack of the Clones".

Tony Eastley: Is there an accountability?

You talk there about accountability. Is there an accountability in Indonesia today under Megawati Sukarnoputri, particularly towards the Indonesian military who were charged with atrocities in East Timor but have never been brought to trial for those charges?

Wimar Witoelar: That's why we need your support, the support of the international world, to look Indonesia as a people struggling to free itself from harsh regimes, the Suharto regime, the Abdurrahman Wahid regime and quite possibly the Megawati Sukarnoputri regime, is quite in danger of being unduly influenced by the military.

But you must remember the majority of the Indonesian people seek democracy, seek pluralism and seek peace.

Tony Eastley: Is there still a resentment by the Indonesian military towards what happened in East Timor and Australia's involvement in that?

Wimar Witoelar: Certainly from the particular elements of the Indonesian military individuals, who were instrumental in the atrocities in East Timor, and those who were in the process of being prosecuted for human rights abuse during President Wahid's time – you must remember that that government supervised the prosecution of human rights abuse, but now it's virtually stopped, plus the fact that the international world doesn't seem to pay too much attention to human rights nowadays.

Tony Eastley: We touched on – in our earlier story by Margot O'Neill – about the number of Indonesian warships sent in to accompany Megawati Sukarnoputri to the independence day celebrations. What do you make of that?

Wimar Witoelar: It's just a show-off force posturing by the Indonesian military to hide their weakness with the people and show they are in control of this Government and for the short term, it is quite frightening.

But we need the public to set up and the press to look and to say to the Government, to President Megawati Sukarnoputri, "Look, let's not get back into the trap of being dictated by the military because that's ridiculous. We've had enough suffering already.

Let's have some peace, let's have some reason, and don't bring your warships around when you visit next time."

Tony Eastley: But, Wimar Witoelar, who do you think was calling the shots there when the warships were coming into Dili Harbour?

Was it Megawati Sukarnoputri or her military? Would they have advised or asked her about whether those ships should come in?

Wimar Witoelar: The military don't ask, they just do. And Megawati Sukarnoputri never tells people what she thinks, because she never speaks in the first place. She just allows the military to have a free hand.

And in this particular event, and we hope in the next events, that, she will be more responsible and more responsive to what the people want.

The elected government of President Wahid certainly wanted the military to be put back in her place. She of course has a different story.

She is there in her position with the support of the military, and elements of the Parliament, so you can understand she has a different position vis-a-vis the military. We just hope she will go back to her roots as leader of the people.

Tony Eastley: It was hardly stealthy, clever Javanese politics.

It was clumsy in the way the military went in with six ships, when they knew the international media was focused on Dili harbour at that very time?

Wimar Witoelar: Certainly they are not gaining any international points or PR points from that manoeuvre, but what they are getting is making people look up and think again, if they think that the military was put back in its place.

Now they are resurrected People who were, as I said, under prosecution for human rights abuse, are now back in active roles. So it is an internal matter for Indonesia to look at the military, the presidency and keep them separate.

Tony Eastley: Those people you talk about, will they be made to account, do you think?

Wimar Witoelar: If this Government doesn't shape up or go back to the mandate, obviously that would be difficult.

But in that case, the whole government, the presidency would have to account to the people, and it's not a foregone conclusion that they will have a mandate longer than 2004 or even earlier.

Tony Eastley: When we look at East Timor and the size of it and its struggle so far, it will need propping up for some time to come.

Is there going to be a problem emerging with Australia helping East Timor and Indonesia looking on and wondering what Australia has in mind with propping East Timor up?

Wimar Witoelar: Indonesia depends on which government is in control. During President Wahid's time, we pleaded for assistance to be given to East Timor.

We sent our people to East Timor and President Xanana came to Jakarta often for a consultation. That that's the Indonesia that, I think, represents the future.

If this Government happens to look unfriendly to the East Timorese, then I hope people realise that this Government does not really represent the people in its attitude towards East Timor.

Tony Eastley: But do you see East Timor as a possible stumbling block to relations between Australia and Indonesia some time in the future?

Wimar Witoelar: I think the relationship between Indonesia and Australia is based more than a single issue, and is based more than a relationship between two particular Heads of Government.

There's a whole breadth and depth of relationships in other sectors – business, academic, culture, people to people – that make this bilateral very strong in the past and make it stronger in the future.

If we refuse to look at the Governments as being fully representative of the people, as democracy has not been enacted in Indonesia.

Tony Eastley: Wimar Witoelar, thank you for joining us on Lateline this evening.

Wimar Witoelar: Thank you for having me.