In Indonesia calls for greater government supervision of Islamic schools have been rejected by the country's leading Muslim groups. Vice President Jusus Kalla has made it clear he wants a small number of schools he suspects of extremist religious teaching to be closely watched.
Presenter/Interviewer: Karon Snowdon
Speakers: Din Syamsudin, Chair of Indonesia's largest Muslim political and social group, Mohammadiah. Syarif Hidayatullah State Islamic University rector Azyumardi Azra
Snowdon: Few details have been released beyond the basic facts – police, according to press reports have arrested three women and one man near the Malaysian border on the Indonesian side of Borneo Island.
They had with them large amounts of explosives, detonators and fuses, but no police spokesperson was available to confirm this today.
Indonesian police have been on high alert since the Bali suicide bombings earlier this month which killed 23 people, with so far no breakthroughs.
It's in this climate that Vice President Jusuf Kalla last week called for closer monitoring of religious schools or pesantrens, a few he said taught extremist views.
It's been rejected completely by Indonesia's largest Muslim group, Muhammadiah, which operates many schools itself, which serve important social and educational roles in Indonesia.
The Chairman of Muhammadiah is Din Syamsudin.
Syamsudin: As far as I know all pesantrens belonging to Islamic organisations don't teach terrorism. So for the government, Vice President, minister of religious affairs can investigate but we're not saying that we blame one or two pesantrens are teaching terrorism or violence, because again it's a contradiction to the very teaching of Islam.
Snowdon: There are about 17-thousand pesantrens in Indonesia and Vice President Jusuf Kalla without naming any, wants the government's Religious Affairs Ministry to closely monitor two or three. Part of the powerful Ministry's role is to review the teaching in schools.
A respected Islamic scholar, Professor Azumardi Azra, President of the State Islamic University, says it's time for the Ministry to get back on the job.
Azra: In the past the Minister of Religious Affairs did not pay any attention to this problem, I don't know why, but I think now it is high time for them, for this ministry to play their role in supervising those pesantrens that have been in one way or another involved in this kind of let's say radicalisation of students.
Snowdon: And that would involve Ngruki?
Azra: Yes of course.
Snowdon: The still operating Ngruki School in Central Java founded by jailed radical cleric Abu Bakar Bashir has been associated with several of those convicted for their involvement in the first Bali bombings of 2002. Bashir is also alleged to be the spiritual leader of Jemaah Islamiah which is blamed for several other attacks.
Professor Azra says groups like MUhammadiah as well as the more conservative Ulema Council and the moderate Nahdlatul Ulama should move away from their traditional defensiveness. He accuses them of not supporting the government's anti-terrorist efforts and goes further to say they are undermining it.
Azra: These organisations should abandon their defensive attitude and then the council of the Ulema and other Muslim organisations like NU and Muhammadiah should support, should be behind the government because otherwise the government would not be successful in addressing this problem.
Snowdon: But there's no place for any interference in schools according to Din Syamsudin from Muhammadiah, though he says the group does support the government's anti-terror campaign generally.
Syamsudin: Yes we support any policy and program from our government to combat terrorism, but we don't agree and we don't support if the government in order to combat terrorism interferes and even distrust religious Islamic education and education institutions like the pesantrens. If such kind of generalisation will happen, like in the past, of course we do suggest and insist our government not to associate any terror action with Islam because we Muslims and the majority of Muslims in Indonesia and all over the world don't support all kinds of terrorism.