Indonesian police say a shadowy sect known as Mahdi is becoming a threat to national security after three officers died in a bloody clash. But others say the sect doesn't exist.

Presenter/Interviewer: Linda LoPresti

Speakers: Dr Thamrin Amal Tomagola, sociologist at the University of Indonesia.

Dr. Tomagola: Actually, it could not be regarded as a sect. It's only a group of young people that train by a trainer called Mahdi and he's a traditional healer and also he's also a trainer of traditional marshal art. The leader of this group is called Mahdi about 32 years-old. He's very friendly with the other villagers, so people are just wondering why all of a sudden people, the police, the local police make a big fuss of this sect.

Lopresti: At the same time though, the clashes were quite violent. Three police officers were killed and two of the Mahdi group were killed. They, according to police, attacked them with swords and sickles?

Dr. Tomagola: Oh yes that's true, because. Actually the whole incident started by a report, by an outsider from neighbouring village who reported to the police that there was a sect. They call it a sect.

Lopresti: So how many people are followers of Mahdi? Are there men, women, children? We've even heard reports that there are people of both Muslim and Christian faiths?

Dr. Tomagola: No, no. This only 20 young men who wanted to be trained by their guru.

Lopresti: What do you mean when you use the word train, train for what?

Dr. Tomagola: Train in marshal art, that's all and he is also has practiced traditional healing, so people come to him for that purpose. He hasn't taught any interpretation of Islam or any interpretation of any religion. But it is true at that he made several critical interpretations against Islam. He said that Muslims, who are fasting should not ridicule any Muslim that who are not fasting, so just accept people as they are. He's a very tolerant person, no violence record at all.

Lopresti: Even so, Jakarta is obviously concerned, the Minister for Religious Affairs, Maftuh Basyuni, declared his teachings to be completely defiant?

Dr. Tomagola: Yeah, marshal art has been learnt for quite a long time in that eastern part of Indonesia, and it's just regarded as something that a young man should equip to himself with that marshal art. Why all of a sudden they make a big fuss of it? I think this is quite closely related with the national concern, meaning the concerns of the bureaucrats, of the national bureaucrats in Jakarta, regarding what they call as false interpretation of Islam in Java.

Loprest: So is it your view that in this climate of growing concern about the formation of Islamic groups that Indonesian police and Jakarta for that matter have overreacted in regard to this group, the Mahdi group?

Dr. Tomagola: I think the concerns of the Jakarta bureaucrats place a black cloud of that incident. But according to my source in Palu he said that actually the local police wanted a piece of land for their shooting training, that's quite close to that village so they just want to push people out from that village, that's actually the rumours spread around in Palu, and so far the local police has not denied it.