Human rights groups say, since martial law was introduced in Indonesia's war ravaged province of Aceh in May, to crack down on the separatist Free Aceh Movement, schools have been burnt, tens of thousands of villagers displaced and many killed in the cross fire of a largely unreported war. Serious allegations have emerged of rape, torture and extrajudicial killings being carried out by the Indonesian military and special police forces.

Presenter/Interviewer: Anita Barraud

Speakers: Rachlan Subandi Nashidik, Director of the Indonesian Human Rights Monitor.

Nashidik: In fact the National Commission of Human Rights, found in very difficult to enter Aceh. Only after there was a meeting with the government, they got limited access to Aceh. The movement of this investigation team in Aceh, was very much you know, always accompanied by the military.

Barraud: It is very difficult to get any concrete information out of Aceh because of the lack of independent reportage and the only coverage has been from journalists embedded with the military – and they are I understand, very restricted in what and how they can report. So how can you get independent information out of Aceh?

Nashidik: We can also get information out of NGO's there. But yes, here we find a serious problem, the accuracy, you know, we always have to re-check every piece of information that we get.

Barraud: There's been mass evacuations of villagers throughout Aceh, where have those villagers gone – and what are the conditions, do you know?.

Nashidik: The government provided a place for the internally displaced persons.

Barraud: Are there any organisations in there monitoring the situation in those camps?

Nashidik: No.

Barraud: No Red Cross or anything like that?

Nashidik: Yes, yes, Indonesian Red Cross yes, but they also have very limited access, becuase of the military rulers there in Aceh – are very paranoid. They didn't want their operation disturbed by any parties – including the Red Cross – so they are very strict on it. But I think it's important – you asked me about the conditions there in Aceh – and I will answer it this way: the military operation in Aceh cost something like one-trillion rupiah – that was only the military operations – yeah one-point-something trillion – and they ask for more. But the budget which has been allocated for the humanitarian operations is only 100-and-something million rupiah. And compare it you know. And the government does not have enough budget allocation to help these people.

Barraud: The Indonesian government's apparently ruled out any dialogue with the Free Aceh GAM movement, how long then do you think the conflict will last and what do you think are the prospects for peace – or even peace talks.

Nashidik: I think none. I mean the Army chief of staff is talking about ten years military opeartion in Aceh – I mean it's really crazy. But this is also the problem, for Indonesia itself. In April 2004, there will be a general election in Aceh. In November this year, the local National Commission of Elections, should be elected, because that's one of the pre-conditions, before the local election could be happening in areas of Indonesia. So if the military operation does not stop, in November the process of general elections in Indonesia will be facing serious threat. This problem will really bring her very serious problems of legitimacy you know because if the operation does not stop in November, then there will be no elections in Aceh. It will be difficult to imagine that there will be elections in Aceh you know and it will really seriously affect the legitimacy of whoever is elected as the President. They have to really negotiate with the military, but probably this will be used by the military as a political bargaining position, to have political influence in Indonesian politics, considering that there will no longer in Parliament after 2004.

What is happening in Aceh is not only threatening the lives of the Acehnese people but the life of political transition in Indonesia. This is really a problem, serious problem, difficult problem, which has to be handled very strongly and carefully by whoever is elected as President in 2004. And I think the United Nations has to hear the suffering of the Acehnese people, in this martial law and also I think the International Commission of Human Rights should be given more access and exercise its mandate in Aceh.