While the Australian PM is taking 20 prominent business leaders with him to Jakarta, the diplomatic tension over asylum-seekers will be hard to ignore.

Already, human rights groups calling on Mr Abbott to use his meeting with Indonesian President Susilon Bambang Yudhyono, to address the issue. Human Rights Watch says any refugee agreement should include provisions to grant legal protection to asylum-seekers and migrants who come to Indonesia.

Presenter: Sen Lam

Speaker: Elaine Pearson, Australian director of Human Rights Watch

Pearson: Well, our concern is that they protection, they languish for months if not years in squalid detention conditions. We've documented how kids don't have access to education, adults don't have the right to work. In the worst cases, they're mistreated and beaten in these detention centres. And so really, if Abbott wants a lasting solution to stop people from getting on these boats, then he should be encouraging Indonesia to adopt a refugee policy that will protect their rights, rather than subjecting them to more abuse.

Lam: Do you think PM Abbott is inclined to raise human rights issues on his first official visit to Indonesia, given that Jakarta's already strongly objected to the government's new policy of turning back boats. How realistic is it?

Pearson: Well look, I think he has an opportunity to set the tone of this debate and I think it doesn't have to be seen as lecturing Indonesia. It can be certainly be seen as engagement, as helping Indonesia to address these issues. I mean certainly we've seen that there has been quite a harsh response to raising policies, such as the boat buy back policy and other issues without coordinating with the Indonesians. So I think it's really how Tony Abbott raises these issues.

Lam: Well, Indonesia has not ratified the 1951 Refugee Convention, and yet the number of asylum seekers reaching Indonesia is dramatically higher than Australia's. How would you access Indonesia's handling of this refugee increase?

Pearson: Well yeah, there's been a 2,000 per cent increase in the number of asylum seekers reaching Indonesia, so this is quite a crisis situation. I think that there needs to be more involvement of the UN Refugee Agency, while they are providing assistance in status determinations in Indonesia, There's certainly a backlog of cases.

I think Australia should be looking at ways, that it can sort of help this backlog, because ultimately, if those cases aren't resolved, then people are going to feel like they have no option but to get on boats and go to another country.

Lam: And Elaine, a group of Papuan Independence activists were deported to Papua New Guinea, after arriving in Australian territory seeking asylum. Do you think Papua should also feature in Prime Minister Abbott's talks in Jakarta and what specifically would you like raised?

Pearson: Yes, I think Tony Abbott has talked quite a lot about free speech in Australia and so it would be fitting for him to also raise concerns about the fact that Indonesia has detained dozens of Papuans, for peaceful acts of free expression, for simply expressing their views or raising flags and we're very concerned that these Papuans that sought asylum in Australia were deported to PNG and it appears that they don't have protection and we would really encourage Tony Abbott to be raising these issues and putting Papua on the agenda.

Lam: And the Prime Minister of Vanuatu has used his speech at the UN General Assembly to call for investigations into alleged human rights abuses, particularly by the PNI, the Indonesian military in Papua Province. What's your intelligence telling you? Is the Indonesian military still behaving with impunity in Papua?

Pearson: Certainly, there have been cases of the Indonesian military detaining, torturing Papuans. The problem is it's very difficult for journalists and human rights organisations to get access to the area. Access is still very much restricted. So one of the things Tony Abbott could raise, for instance, is that Indonesia should allow foreign human rights monitors, allow foreign journalists unimpeded access to Papua and I think that would be an important first step to actually be able to investigate these cases and see what the military is doing there.

Lam: And finally, just briefly Elaine. If there were to be an agreement with Jakarta on the issue of asylum seekers. What do you think the focus should be? What would you like it to contain?

Pearson: Certainly, I think one of the key components should be encouraging Indonesia to sign and ratify the Refugee Convention and I think discussions with Indonesia should really focus on improving the conditions in detention, ensuring that asylum seekers have the right to work, basically addressing those key factors of abuses in detention that have been reported, so that people feel like they can be safe in Indonesia and protected.