The killing of eight Indonesian soldiers in two separate incidents in Papua late last month was the bloodiest attack on security forces in the Indonesian province for two years. Those responsible have not been found or identified.

Gun attacks have been common in Papua, where poorly-armed separatists have fought a low-level insurgency for decades on behalf of the mostly ethnic Melanesian population.

Indonesia's Ambassador to Australia says opposition to Indonesian rule comes from a tiny minority in Papua. Speaking before the latest photographs came to light, the ambassador said Papua will always be part of Indonesia but concedes Jakarta also needs to ensure the security forces are properly trained.

Correspondent: Karon Snowdon

Speaker: Nadjib Riphat Kesoema, Indonesia's Ambassador to Australia

Kesoema: Well Papua is a province unique to Indonesia because as you know the colonial has just tried to help Papua for quite some time after the independence of Indonesia. The problem is that, the reason also in this discussion is about rule of law. For me, rule of law is the twin brother or twin sister of democracy. If you have a democracy but you don't have rule of law so it will be difficult for you to apply a democratic system. The problem in Papua is that a lot of demonstrations that then go into violence, they burn police cars, and then this exaggerates the emotions also of the officers.

Snowdon: So the security forces also need to show restraint or be better trained to handle such situations?

Kesoema: Exactly, I think it's most important that training be given very deeply for awareness for everybody. And then also the people should be aware of the situation. So they have to be trained in what is actually democracy, how the interactions should be between the people who take care of the demonstrations and the people who do it.

Snowdon: Briefly I wonder if we can deal with the historical point that you made that Indonesia resumed control over Papua as part of its right. Just very briefly, I know it's a complex issue but Indonesia seems to be saying it would never consider giving up Papua, even though it was taken as a colony and there were questions over the vote of free association that was taken way back. So even though other countries have given independence to colonies, Indonesia doesn't see it that way?

Kesoema: Of course it's impossible for Indonesia to give away Papua because Papua is a part of Indonesia. You know the principle of uti possidetis juris, that the area that colonised by one country will get independence together.

Snowdon: Would then Indonesia given what you've said, the importance of Papua to Indonesia's sense of itself, Indonesia would be prepared as someone here in this meeting has suggested, Indonesia would be prepared to go to war to keep hold of Papua?

Kesoema: Well maybe not war because war is not an alternative now. But Indonesia is ready for the ramification of this problem because we always said that from Sabang in Aceh to Merauke in Papua, it's part of our blood.

Snowdon: Why not just send in more troops and clear out what you say is a very small minority of opposition?

Kesoema: Well we don't want to have bloodshed over in Papua. We want to have a peaceful settlement of the issue in Papua.

Snowdon: On the issue of religious intolerance, there are certain views that it is on the rise in Indonesia, and some concern over what's said to be government inaction or inadequate responses to it. Will those comments, we're here at an Indonesia-Australia Dialogue, will those comments be conveyed by you to the government in Jakarta?

Kesoema: Well this situation is also... we're back again to this twin brother and sister, the democracy angle of law. I have to confess that perhaps our officials are not well trained so that's why it still happens that this minority action could not be settled amicably.

Snowdon: Turning to business and economics a little bit more, there are many people here who want to see improvement in visas and travel access both ways, and indeed the convenor of this meeting John McCarthy has said he expects just the same old stonewalling by both bureaucracies on calls for easing visa restrictions to improve business, education and as well as cultural interactions between the two countries, is he right?

Kesoema: Karon, we discussed about the consular matters several times and we have a working group on consular affairs between Indonesia and Australia. Right now we have agreed both countries to have what's called work and holiday visa for our young people to gain the experience of having work outside their country.

Snowdon: And when can I get a visa to go to Papua, if I may interrupt?

Kesoema: Well you can go to Papua but you know that the situation is very inconvenient now for you to travel there or you just send your application to us, I will send it to Jakarta and they will consider whether you go or not.