The United Nations Special Rapporteur on torture and cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment or punishment, Manfred Nowak, recently made a two-week visit to Indonesia on invitation from the Indonesian government. The Jakarta Post's Lovelli Ariesti interviewed Nowak.
Question: What did you expect to find in relation to torture and ill-treatment in Indonesia before arriving here?
Answer: I should say in the beginning I had the feeling that most cases of torture and ill-treatment would actually be related to conflict areas, like Aceh, Poso and Papua. But my findings are the opposite.
Particularly in Papua – those who were engaged in political activities, like raising the flag, and sentenced for treason, as well as other political suspects, are better treated than ordinary criminal suspects. I only found a few cases (involving) allegations of torture that could be corroborated by medical evidence in Papua.
But in general I would say that the conditions in Abepura and Waimena prisons are extremely liberal. They are very open prisons, even for the so-called political detainees. I could speak to them openly and they could communicate with the outside world. They all had mobile phones and they could even leave the prison and come back. That's what I mean by a liberal system.
In Jakarta, the (number of) prisoners are two to three times the prison's capacity. About 3,500 prisoners are crammed into small prisons. The new arrivals are kept in huge rooms for weeks, even months, sitting together under very bad conditions. They are also subjected to disciplinary punishments and locked up in small isolation cells made for one person. There's no fresh air and not much light. I could only call this (kind of) treatment inhuman. So you have really, really big differences.
My main point is there are not enough leading safeguards to prevent or combat torture. We can't bring perpetrators of torture to justice and that creates a very broad range of discretion for the respective police chiefs or prison directors.
Indonesia has a judicial system that is not yet independent, and this hampers legal approaches to resolving human rights violations. What do you think about this?
We also received many allegations that the judicial system in general, the administration of criminal justice, is very corrupt. And we could directly testify to that. The Cipinang Prison, for instance, is so corrupt that the detainees have to pay the prison guards for everything. Sometimes even only for being allowed to sleep there, although they are required to sleep there. And we heard the same allegations in relation to prosecutors and judges.
So the general theme that you're always going to encounter is that if you have money you can find your way. So of course, that system of corruption leads to strong discrimination of the poor. There's no question about that.
So my recommendations would be, of course, to strengthen the independence of judges and to provide prisoners with more direct access to lawyers. I think we have to reduce the high number of pre-trial detainees by speeding up the judicial process.
Indonesia has a long history of human rights violations. Do you have any suggestions for how Indonesia could resolve these past human rights violations?
I think Indonesia has come a long way already, since 1998, in overcoming the legacy of the Soeharto regime. And by developing a well-functioning democracy in a country like Indonesia with so many huge differences, so many different ethnic communities, so many different religions, this is a big task, a big challenge. And I think Indonesia has done very well.
Many reforms in relation to the law and human rights have been achieved already. The 2004 Law on Domestic Violence Against Women is a very good example. But it needs to be better implemented. I think it's important to have such a law. But what really hasn't been done yet is (the creation of) a particular law for torture in the criminal code with adequate sanctions.
The criminal procedure code needs to be amended, in order to introduce the idea of habeas corpus, in order to reduce police custody, in order to establish the possibility of criminal complaints, to make sure that confessions extracted by torture are not used in the criminal trial against the defendant.
We have a long list and I will state that very clearly in my recommendations, what actions can be taken. Many of those actions do not cost much money, it just (requires) the political will to do it.
Other (measures) cost money, and I am happy to facilitate technical cooperation, financial assistance by the international donor community, both the UNDP, the European Union and bilateral donor agencies... one of my major recommendations is to ratify the actions protocol in the convention against torture, and set up a truly independent and affective national preventive mechanism, which could be the National Commission on Human Rights or other (body).
Do you think Indonesia can overcome its culture of impunity for those in power, having no success in bringing members of the military or police to court for their involvement in torture and ill-treatment of humans?
Of course, the military is a different question. Military officials are only brought before a military court, irrespective of whether the victim is from the military or is a civilian. In every case, whether its murder, theft, or torture, they can only be judged by a military court. And of course, as you know, military courts are never truly independent. And I have my doubts they will really be tough on soldiers and military officers who have been found practicing torture.
On the other hand, much has been done to demilitarize the country, to deprive the military of certain privileges, and I have been told the military is not holding any more civilian detainees. I have not received any recent allegations of the military holding a person for more than 24 hours.
What do you think are the major threats and challenges in implementing the Convention against Torture in Indonesia?
I think, first, it's just the political will. I think this will is there in certain parts of the government, but of course, powerful bodies like the National Police and the military might be opposed to the very far reaching message of investigating tortures within their areas. If you ratify the optional protocol in the Convention against Torture, then it is really a major effort.
The government should see this as a major chance to see that both the UN sub-committee on the prevention against torture and the national preventive mechanism are actually allies in preventing torture.
The government has also to over think it's policy if it really wants to have this independent mechanism. The independent body should give them the maximum possibility of freedom of inquiry and full access to places of detention, without subjecting them to any kind of control.
How would you compare the situation in Indonesia to that of other Asian countries?
Within Asia, Indonesia is one of the most democratic countries. It is a country with a functioning democracy. And Indonesia has shown that within less than 10 years after the end of the Soeharto era, it has come a very, very long way. So I have full trust that Indonesia might become a kind of a pioneer in this region, if they really ratify the optional protocol. This is a big step.
Show other countries you can take affirmative action in eradicating torture... the present legal situation indicates much has improved. There's freedom of expression, freedom of assembly, freedom of the media, etc. They are really fully functioning in the democratic spirit. I think you have a very critical media, which is the basis of how the criticism can actually flourish.
What is much more difficult is to really change institutions, such as the police, where torture for many, many years has been structurally applied.
If people really get 10 years imprisonment for torture, they would think twice and others would be reluctant to do it. But, as I said, we have no cases so far, not one police officer has ever been brought before a court and sentenced for ill-treatment. And I think this really has to change.