For a second straight day, the Indonesian military has continued its offensive against Aceh's separatist rebels, with an order to exterminate those who refuse to surrender. The assault began yesterday after last-ditch peace talks between Jakarta and the rebels broke down in Tokyo on the weekend. In Australia, defence minister Robert Hill has has urged the military not to use excessive force in Aceh but he's also supported Indonesia's right to defend its territorial integrity. At the same time, Foreign Minister Alexander Downer, has ruled out an appeal for United Nations intervention.

Presenter/Interviewer: Graeme Dobell, Canberra

Speakers: Australia's Defence Minister Robert Hill; Labor's foreign affairs spokesman, Kevin Rudd; Australian Foreign Minister, Alexander Downer

Dobell: Since it led United Nations forces into East Timor in 1999, Australia has developed a diplomatic mantra to restore relations with Indonesia. This is the statement, often repeated, that Australia supports Indonesia's unity and territorial integrity. For Australia's Defence Minister, Robert Hill, that translates into an understanding of Indonesia's right to use military force in Aceh to deal with a revolt.

Hill: "Aceh was always part of the Indonesian state. We believe that Indonesia's got a perfect right to maintain its internal integrity and we regret that there are those who are in armed revolt. We wish that parties could peacefully resolve their differences."

Dobell: Senator Hill dismisses any comparison between the aspirations of East Timor and Aceh. But he says East Timor has hardened Indonesia's determination to prevent Aceh from breaking away.

Hill: "Experience in East Timor is such that they will work even harder to preserve what they see as the internal integrity of their country. But as I've said, we accept that Aceh is part of Indonesia and that their right to protect their own internal interests. What we do is that we urge and we have supported all parties to the conflict to seek to find a resolution within one Indonesia."

Downer: Australia's Opposition Labor Party says Canberra should do more than deplore bloodshed ... it should be calling for the United Nations to establish a special envoy to negotiate a ceasefire. Labor's foreign affairs spokesman, Kevin Rudd...

Rudd: "The challenge for Mr. Downer as Australian foreign minister is now to pick up the telephone to Secretary-General Koffi Annan of the United Nations. This crisis in Aceh requires immediate UN mediatian and Mr. Downer must act now to ensure that the good offices of the United Nations are brought to bare in this rapidly deteriorating crisis."

Dobell: But mention of the United Nations is another reminder of East Timor. The Foreign Minister, Alexander Downer, is decidedly cool about Mr Rudd's idea, saying he's not what sure what a UN representative would do.

Downer: "This is all part of Indonesia and the Indonesians are going to have to sort out these problems themselves. We can't just get the UN involved as he put it. I mean in the end, what the international community is saying to, not just the Indonesian Government but also GAM, the separatist movement, that we would wish that they would negotiate this and when negotiations breakdown, we hope that whatever happens in the interim that the negotiating process will begin again as quickly as possible."

Dobell: For Australia's Defence Minister the assault in Aceh should have no impact on the strengthening of military relations with Indonesia. While Jakarta tore up its bilateral security agreement with Australia during the East Timor confrontation in 1999, Senator Hill says military relations were never broken off. Since then, he says, Australia has steadily rebuilt military links.

He says the two countries have mutual interests in dealing with terrorism and now have regular exchanges between senior military officers. The Defence Minister says Australia wants to expand training cooperation to restart joint maritime exercises with Indonesia.

Hill: "Indonesia understands that we see our relationship with Indonesia as very important from the whole national perspective and an important element of that is the relationship between our defence forces. Sometimes it hasn't been easy. East Timor's is a classic example of that I suppose, but notwithstanding the difficulties that we've experienced from time to time, we believe it's in the Australian national interest and we understand Indonesia believes its in their interests."