Compere: Which brings us to the war crimes issue more generally. And fresh evidence is emerging of the Indonesian military's complicity in the crimes against humanity in East Timor. The Senate Committee on East Timor heard first-hand accounts today of TNI links with the militias that rampaged through the country before and after the referendum. Karon Snowdon reports:
Karon Snowdon: There's an urgency to collect credible eye witness accounts of the atrocities which took place in East Timor and to identify who was directly responsible. The Senate Committee heard today from Garry Wood, a former member of the Australian Federal Police and now a consultant to UNAMET. His account of the siege of a Dili hotel confirms what we already know of the blind eye turned on militia activity by the Indonesian forces.
Garry Wood: I stood on the roof and I saw at different stages militia come in around four separate cordons of some hundreds of police and military from four different levels of command come in and shoot at the building and have people run around that building with machetes. I can only say that it had to have been orchestrated.
Karon Snowdon: And a report from BBC correspondent, Humphrey Hawkesley, printed in London's Independent Newspaper, claims officials in West Timor say they were ordered to set up camps to handle thousands of people at least four days ahead of East Timor's referendum. From just how high up the chain of command the orders came will be up to the proposed International War Crimes Tribunal to prove.
Opposition spokesperson on Foreign Affairs, Laurie Brereton, says Australia must hand over its military intelligence which he claims will prove the links to the highest Indonesian command.
Laurie Brereton: Australia will have all of – a great deal of detailed knowledge, just as NATO had an enormous amount of knowledge of the atrocities committed in the former republic of Yugoslavia.
Karon Snowdon: When asked on last night's 7.30 Report whether he supported the UN's determination to establish a War Crimes Tribunal for East Timor, Prime Minister, John Howard, was cautious.
John Howard: Well, look, I support any of the UN processes but, I mean, my main focus at the moment is the more immediate one of getting people in as quickly as possible, because as soon as that occurs, you automatically reduce the possibility of further things being done.
Karon Snowdon: Colonel Bob Lowry from the Australian Defence Study Centre agrees the timing is the thing.
Bob Lowry: There are some risks in the short-term. That's what we've got to be careful of, that it doesn't impede the process of getting the UN force on the ground and the co-operation between the Indonesian troops and the UN force in the first instance, and that it doesn't give ammunition to the hawks in Jakarta to maybe try and forestall the transition to democracy or indeed to mount a coup.
Karon Snowdon: But another view holds that Australia would be reluctant to hand over any intelligence. Lecturer in International Relations at Deakin University, Scott Burchell, believes the diplomatic cost to Australia would be considered too high. I asked him what military intelligence Laurie Brereton was hinting at.
Scott Burchell: I would imagine it would be phone calls that have been recorded, intercepted and recorded.
Karon Snowdon: Australia routinely collects or listens to Indonesian phone calls?
Scott Burchell: Absolutely, particularly as far as foreign and defence intelligence sources is concerned. Australia keeps a very close ear on all military conversations that are taking place between Jakarta and its deployment in East Timor.
Karon Snowdon: And you think that would be the evidence that would be needed?
Scott Burchell: Well, that would be crucial in providing enough information to indict someone as senior as General Wiranto.
Karon Snowdon: How much guess work on your part is involved in assuming that this intelligence would reveal those links?
Scott Burchell: Not very much. We've already had leaks from the Defence Intelligence Organisation earlier this year which clearly stated that Australian intelligence sources were aware that the militias were being orchestrated from senior levels of the TNI, right up to and including General Wiranto.