For the past six years, East Timorese independence fighter Xanana Gusmco has languished inside Jakarta's Cipinang prison, accused of plotting against the state and illegal possession of weapons. Leader of the revolutionary group fretilin, Gusmco, 52, recently began secret talks with Indonesian officials over East Timor's future. Last week, Time slipped questions to Gusmco into the high-security prison via an intermediary. Excerpts from the exchange:

Time: What is your mood? Are you optimistic?

Gusmao: I feel extremely optimistic. For 23 years we fought against a powerful regime with a military force that is one of Southeast Asia's strongest. We were aided by the belief that no dictatorial regimes are eternal. When Suharto resigned we knew that the time had come when we could think more calmly and more clearly.

Time: In negotiating the future of East Timor, what are the minimum terms acceptable to you? Autonomy?

Gusmao: There can be no solution to the problem in East Timor without a referendum. Otherwise the situation will just continue as it did in Palestine. Autonomy is something you ask for after integration, and what's first needed is a referendum.

Time: Are you worried that, if President Habibie doesn't survive in office, negotiations would be disturbed? What if he's replaced by a hard-liner?

Gusmao: I'm not worried about Habibie falling because I realize that his government is only a transitional one heading toward reform. Also I do not believe that he will give the East Timorese a referendum. There are too many outside forces against it that are stronger than he.

Time: What about the army? Who are the hard-liners?

Gusmao: Every military person who has served in East Timor knows in his heart of hearts that the East Timorese do not want integration with Indonesia and that the only permanent solution is to hold a referendum. The hard-liners are either those who did morally reprehensible acts in East Timor and would be ashamed were these acts to be known, or who fear independence for reasons of domestic strategy. The armed forces could play a big role in bringing about a peaceful solution. Once the right of East Timorese to self-determination is recognized, their character will change from that of an occupying force to that of a peacekeeping force. Feelings of enmity, hatred and accusations against each other will disappear.

Time: Have you considered the possibility that the military presence could simply continue?

Gusmao: I do not believe that is possible. The world is in constant movement, and in the long run change is always in the direction of progress.

Time: Does the Church speak for the people of East Timor?

Gusmao: The Church's position is to support whatever the people of East Timor want.

Time: What's the first step toward finding a solution?

Gusmao: I just hope the government's attitude toward East Timor will become wiser. We respect the interests of Indonesia, and should East Timor become free we would want to create a warm bilateral relationship.

[Reuters reported that on July 8, the Indonesian Foreign Minister Ali Alatas has denied a Lisbon newspaper report that the government was planning to release Gusmao soon. Referring to an earlier proposal by Habibie that Gusmao could be released if the UN accepted East Timor's integration into Indonesia, Alatas said "He can only be released... as part of an overall solution. There is no change in that position". On July 11, the justice minister Muladi, told the official news agency Antara that 90 more political prisoners would be released next week. Reiterating Alatas's statement he told Associated Press that Gusmao would not be one of them - James Balowski.]