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East Timorese resistance fighter - 'Naldo Rei'

Source
Radio Australia - May 4, 2008

Presenter: Monica Attard

A tale of East Timor's struggle for independence through the eyes of child resistance fighter - Naldo Rei.

Monica Attard: Hello, you've joined Sunday Profile and I'm Monica Attard. This week we're speaking to Naldo Rei, whose personal account of growing up amid East Timor's clandestine resistance movement has just been published in Australia.

Naldo Rei was just a baby when the Fretilin political party declared independence and Indonesian troops stormed into his country and his family fled into the jungle.

In only the second book to be published in English about first hand experiences of life during the Indonesian occupation, his book 'Resistance' is about a childhood lost, a father murdered, imprisonment and repeated torture at the hands of the Indonesian security forces.

Eventually, Naldo Rei was in too much danger and he fled, to all places, to Jakarta, where he tried to attract international attention to the cause of the East Timorese. Finally, he saw the birth of a new nation from Australia.

In the jungle he used to ask his parents, though, about the sound of the gunshots.

Naldo Rei: My question was why, you know when I hear this, the bullets, or this, the sound of shooting, why people disappear everyday and that's the question that come to my mind. This mean that if you wield guns or shooting, this means that's killing people or just take away people's life. This has always come to my question and come to my mind. And I keep asking my parents.

Monica Attard: And what were they telling you?

Naldo Rei: They didn't answer anything.

Monica Attard: They didn't know or they didn't want to upset the children?

Naldo Rei: They, they, they knew. They knew what happened, but they don't want to upset me, especially because as a child my life is not supposed to listen to the weapons or guns or shooting or killing.

Monica Attard: And your parents were Fretilin supporters?

Naldo Rei: Yes.

Monica Attard: And what did they do? Were they active members of Fretilin? What did they do to support Fretilin?

Naldo Rei: They help in they doing, ah, they provide the food, clothes and traditional medicine to help the guerrilla fighter.

Monica Attard: Do you remember when you were captured by the Indonesians?

Naldo Rei: Yes. Because, um, we were surround early in the morning. Somehow we heard a lot of shooting around, around us. And we didn't know what happened. And somehow they come surround us. We were living in the cave, it's called Kuru He'e Henu Cave. And they capture us and they took us to Indonesian headquarters in Lospalos. And they put my family away and then only leave the kids in a big hall in, um, in Indonesian Army headquarters, Lospalos.

Monica Attard: For how long?

Naldo Rei: For three months.

Monica Attard: For three months?

Naldo Rei: Yes.

Monica Attard: So did you see your parents in that time?

Naldo Rei: No.

Monica Attard: No. And were you treated well?

Naldo Rei: Well they, they treat us – they treat us well. But as kids you need the family to be around. But they teach us how to write and read, the Indonesian Army.

Monica Attard: And eventually they forced you back to your village?

Naldo Rei: Yes.

Monica Attard: With your mum and dad?

Naldo Rei: Yes.

Monica Attard: And, ah, but they were monitoring your activities?

Naldo Rei: Yes. They keep, because they – when we went to – before they release us, they release us to live in, it's called, um, Missao Fuiloro. It's a school of – agricultural school in Lospalos. So they move us there until, um, it's 1980 or something like that, for six months, living there as well]. And then they move us to our village.

Monica Attard: I believe that secretly your mother and father continued to support the independence movement?

Naldo Rei: Yes.

Monica Attard: And the Indonesians eventually found out?

Naldo Rei: Yes.

Monica Attard: And what happened?

Naldo Rei: Because my father, he was the leader of the community and also in my tradition he's a kin, generation kin in my family. He saw something was wrong, this mean why Indonesian Army come and kill us. So he have to establish, organise these people to go against, to support Fretilin Group, follow into the jungle and fight against the Indonesian Army, by different strategy, especially clandestine movement. And later on they found out that my father was involved in the movement, so they took him, with his friend – five of his friends and then kill all of them.

Monica Attard: Do you remember when he was taken?

Naldo Rei: Yes. I was nine to – almost nine to ten.

Monica Attard: So you would remember that, sort of...?

Naldo Rei: Yeah, he was killed in the 11 March in 1985 and six months later I tried to find my father, where he's gone. So I went to all the Indonesian headquarters in Lospalas area asking, 'Where is my father?' and they said, that the father, 'We don't know. We don't know your father'.

Monica Attard: Did you ever find out what happened?

Naldo Rei: Yeah, just six months later after I left, because they capture me and they release me.

Monica Attard: And why do they – how did they capture you? Why did they capture you?

Naldo Rei: They capture me because I went to ask the headquarter, the Indonesian Army headquarter, 'Where is my father?' I was looking for my father.

Monica Attard: So they took you?

Naldo Rei: Yeah they took me. And then later I decide, oh I have to join with the guerrilla fighter.

Monica Attard: And what did they do to you when they caught you?

Naldo Rei: They torture me for two weeks. And they keep asking me my involvement in the struggle, in the real stuff.

Monica Attard: And this is at the age of nine?

Naldo Rei: Of nine, yeah.

Monica Attard: What were they doing? What was the torture?

Naldo Rei: They torture me, they using electrocute to shock me. They using razor to cut my body and they ask me where is all the Falintil guerrilla fighter. But I said, 'I have no idea. I don't know anything. But I come here to find my father'.

Monica Attard: Did you ever find out how they had killed him?

Naldo Rei: Because I never ever go to, you know, his funeral. So, but the witness told me that, you know, they cut his – his neck and well his body. So they just dump into the cave.

Monica Attard: At the age of nine or ten, that would have had an immense impact on you?

Naldo Rei: Impact a lot to me, but I understand the consequences of war. The consequences of – of being resistant or resistance fighter. To fight against Indonesian Army or to defence your people and also the land of East Timor, you have to sacrifice yourself even if it's death. But at least one day East Timor will be free.

Monica Attard: And when you say you became a resistance fighter at the age of nine or ten, what did that mean? What were you doing? What did you have to do?

Naldo Rei: I mean I have to fight in different ways. I don't have to go fight with the weapons or guns. But we have a three front struggle: diplomatic, clandestine movement and also army movement. So because I living in Dili or in Timor, so I have to using my network, clandestine network, to organise, to work with the resistance movement – other resistant movement and support the guerrilla fight in the jungle.

Monica Attard: And I believe that you acted as a courier as a young boy?

Naldo Rei: Yes, yes.

Monica Attard: Between which parties?

Naldo Rei: Between clandestine to guerrilla fighter in the jungle.

Monica Attard: Right. So you were taking messages from the city, from Dili?

Naldo Rei: From Dili to the jungle.

Monica Attard: To the jungle?

Naldo Rei: Yes.

Monica Attard: Alone?

Naldo Rei: Yes.

Monica Attard: And how do you do that? How did you know your way?

Naldo Rei: Because we have a really good connection and different structure, different level.

Monica Attard: So there were people every step of the way, who were supporters?

Naldo Rei: Yes.

Monica Attard: Who were helping you?

Naldo Rei: Yes.

Monica Attard: And guiding you?

Naldo Rei: Yeah, guiding me.

Monica Attard: Do you remember being scared?

Naldo Rei: I never scared. Because when they start – kill my father, my fear of a scare or fear of something it disappear. I just go ahead and then to find out why my father was killed.

Monica Attard: And obviously you knew the jungle didn't you?

Naldo Rei: Yes.

Monica Attard: You were quite at home in the jungle?

Naldo Rei: Yes, yes.

Monica Attard: So that wasn't a problem for you?

Naldo Rei: No. I mean I know the consequences of war.

Monica Attard: You met Xanana Gusmao?

Naldo Rei: Yes.

Monica Attard: How old were you when you first met him?

Naldo Rei: I was seventeen or sixteen when I met him. I met him in Dili and also to Lospalos.

Monica Attard: What sort of impression did he make on you?

Naldo Rei: You know I was a young boy. You met a guerrilla fighter, the top one, you're really proud of. This mean that you are the person that he trusts or other leaders trust you to organise his trip and try to hide him and try to be a messenger. So this means that he trusts you and I was really proud of him.

Monica Attard: But how did he show you that he was a brave man?

Naldo Rei: Well because I been receive his letter a couple of times and I been receive his message, you know, through to a recording cassette sent to me, I listen to him and I – how to work with him and how to deal with the Indonesian Army. So that's why I know how you...

Monica Attard: And is that how he sent messages out to Fretilin supporters?

Naldo Rei: Yes, Fretilin supporters.

Monica Attard: So it was kind of like an underground...

Naldo Rei: An underground movement.

Monica Attard:... an underground movement of information?

Naldo Rei: Yes. Monica Attard: Which would be passed on from one person to another?

Naldo Rei: Yes. To another person.

Monica Attard: Yeah. And as a young man you heard those tapes?

Naldo Rei: Yes. And then I distribute to other people, especially.

Monica Attard: Now a bloody time in your fight, that a lot of our listeners will remember, is the massacre at Santa Cruz?

Naldo Rei: Yes.

Monica Attard: Did you see that massacre?

Naldo Rei: Yes. Yes. Because I was involved in that massacre.

Monica Attard: How were you involved?

Naldo Rei: Because I was, ah, Xanana had sent me tapes to organise the demonstration at the 12th of November. So I distribute his tape record to all different organisation, political organisation. So I have to be part of that too.

Monica Attard: And because of your role in helping to organise that protest you were arrested?

Naldo Rei: Yes.

Monica Attard: And tortured again?

Naldo Rei: Yes.

Monica Attard: What did they do to you then? What was the torture?

Naldo Rei: It's really, really bad. They torture me. They pulled all my toenails, my fingernails and they torture me. They hit me with an iron pipe and they shock me with electrocute – electrocute and it's horrible, horrible. They tied me upside down and they tortured me for every day.

Monica Attard: For how long?

Naldo Rei: For two weeks.

Monica Attard: And then what happened?

Naldo Rei: They moved me to 'Iron Prison'. This is called Balidu Prison but we always call it 'Iron Prison' because it's really dark there inside. You can't see anything. There is no sound. You can't hear anything, anybody. But the only – between your prison cells to all the friends, but you can't see anyone, anybody's face.

Monica Attard: And how long did you remain there?

Naldo Rei: I was living there for 59 days. And then they move me to a prison in Aileu district.

Monica Attard: But eventually you were released from prison?

Naldo Rei: Yes.

Monica Attard: And you became an informant for the Indonesians?

Naldo Rei: Yes.

Monica Attard: They thought you were an informant?

Naldo Rei: Yes.

Monica Attard: But you weren't really?

Naldo Rei: No.

Monica Attard: No. Tell me about that, what happened?

Naldo Rei: When you being released by Indonesian Army you have to sign a letter. You have to agree that you will be – accept the Indonesian flag. You will be working with the Indonesian Army to reveal all your friend, all your connection, to Indonesian Army so they can capture them. It has to be – everybody have to agree that, you know, East Timor is a part of Indonesia as a 27th province. But no-one can change our mind to be part of Indonesia.

Monica Attard: But I imagine that the Indonesians would have known that in forcing people like you to sign those documents and agree to become informants, that you weren't really going to do it?

Naldo Rei: No, because I – why I have to do it? Because if you force me and then it strengthen me to fight back. And then when you force people you know that you're going to – it's more, create a resistance opposite to Indonesia.

Monica Attard: Was there a sense amongst those of your friends and people in the underground movement, that in signing that agreement that you were kind of also signing your own death warrant, that people might have not trusted you?

Naldo Rei: Because they capture me so many times and I never reveal any of my friends.

Monica Attard: So people knew that you wouldn't betray them?

Naldo Rei: No. Even the top clandestine leaders I never betray them. Because I say that I prefer die than them because I am the young boy, I am nothing. But if kill one of my top leader and then the struggle will be finished.

Monica Attard: You then got out of East Timor didn't you? You got to Jakarta.

Naldo Rei: Yes.

Monica Attard: Why did you go to Jakarta? How did that happen?

Naldo Rei: Well I was asked by clandestine leader, Sabalae. He asked me to go to jungle first and I went to the jungle for almost a month. But I was a little bit sick and then they sent me back. And then they said, 'Okay you have to go to Jakarta and work with the Solidarity Group' in Jakarta. To change the situation in East Timor you have to change the people of Indonesia first so they can involve our resistance groups too for free East Timor.

Monica Attard: You've worked very, very closely with the pro-democracy activists and who occupied the Dutch Embassy as well didn't you?

Naldo Rei: Yes, yes.

Monica Attard: On Xanana Gusmau's orders?

Naldo Rei: Yes, yes.

Monica Attard: What do you remember of that? Were you there at the occupation?

Naldo Rei: Yes. Because I was the leader, spokesperson, of the occupation, I mean the demonstration in 7th December of 1995. We want to show to international community that the struggle of, for free East Timor is not only us, but Indonesian people itself. Because they knew that something was wrong in East Timor. Why have to be killed everyday? And that's why they support us to – to show international community that Indonesian people themselves, they don't agree with the Suharto decision to invade East Timor.

Monica Attard: What do you remember about that day?

Naldo Rei: It was – it's really tough because you are, we call, you are in the mouth of the tiger that can swallow you any time, especially Indonesian Army. Well we organise and then Xanana order me to organise and also with other people, to organise the '95, 7th December demonstration in Russian Embassy and also in Dutch Embassy, including Indonesian Solidarity Group. And we organise and three, three days in Dutch Embassy, but every day they just, the Indonesian Military and also Indonesian, um, also called, um, gangster in Indonesian Army, they come and they throw rocks to the Embassy and then hit the Embassy and oh it was really bad.

Monica Attard: And blamed the East Timorese?

Naldo Rei: Yeah. The East Timorese. They say that we are their betrayer and Horta is bad and Xanana is bullshit, don't believe Xanana or Horta. And, but and then they destroy the Embassy.

Monica Attard: You say that the Indonesians were the ones who did the damage to the Dutch Embassy?

Naldo Rei: Yeah Indonesian, Indonesian – Indonesian Army. Especially Kopassus.

Monica Attard: Were they actually in the building whilst the protesters were in the building?

Naldo Rei: Yes. In the building, yeah.

Monica Attard: And that wasn't recognised by the Dutch authorities?

Naldo Rei: They recognised, but they couldn't do anything at the time. So even they hit the Ambassador until his head was bleeding and...

Monica Attard: And you say that was Kopassus?

Naldo Rei: Yes.

Monica Attard: Did your perception of the Indonesians change when you were in Jakarta?

Naldo Rei: Yes.

Monica Attard: How and why?

Naldo Rei: Because East Timorese case and also Indonesian case, we have a different boat but same destiny. This means that Indonesian people under dictatorship for 32 years and there are no democracy in Indonesia themselves. And I believe that the movement of pro democracy movement in Indonesia growing every day. Why we don't have to – why we have to sit down in silence to live in a horror place for 32 years?

Monica Attard: So do you believe that average Indonesians, the ones that you came across in Jakarta, supported Timorese independence?

Naldo Rei: Yes. Because they hid me for 2 years. And I know and I work with them.

Monica Attard: So it was the problem clearly of Kopassus and the Indonesian authorities?

Naldo Rei: Yeah it's only – the problem is the Army not the people.

Monica Attard: And you know I suppose the – what happened at the Dutch Embassy, do you think that the Dutch allowed the Indonesians in?

Naldo Rei: Yes. I think they are scared of the Indonesian Army at the same time. Because they can't shoot the embassies, it mean that you invade the country, if you – because the embassies are representing the country, but if you invade it this mean that you are a traitor and invade the country as well. Why Dutch Embassy – what they allowed the Indonesian Army to enter the office and they capture...

Monica Attard: Why?

Naldo Rei: I don't know. Capture us.

Monica Attard: So do you think that there was some sort of conspiratorial agreement between the Dutch and the Indonesians?

Naldo Rei: We don't know, but I believe so.

Monica Attard: You think so?

Naldo Rei: Yeah. And they capture us and then they didn't give me – they interrogate me for 24 hours. It is lucky that, you know, um, international community know about our protest. So they press on Indonesian Government to release us.

Monica Attard: As a result of all of this you managed to get out of Indonesia didn't you?

Naldo Rei: Yes.

Monica Attard: How did you get out?

Naldo Rei: Because my situation was, you know, I had been working with Indonesian Solidarity Group and also I'd been in, publicly against the Indonesian occupation. They were looking for me, search me everywhere, targeting Indonesian group. They call us a so called communist. But whoever trouble them or make a problem or against the Indonesian authority they say that trouble maker or communist. So they label any people who are against the Indonesian regime. So I was not safe in Jakarta so that's why I left.

Monica Attard: Until you came to Australia?

Naldo Rei: Yes.

Monica Attard: A final question. What hope do you hold now for East Timor, given what we've seen recently with an assassination attempt on your top leadership, Xanana Gusmao and Josi Ramos-Horta, what hope do you hold now?

Naldo Rei: I – my, personally I against any kind of violence. Shooting the president this mean you shoot the people of East Timor. Even if we have a different idea, different ideology or different opinion, that doesn't mean you have to shoot him. And we own the independence once. Nobody can change it. So even the rebel leaders they try to destroy the country, but I believe that people are wanting independence, that's all they want. And now the leaders should sit down together to solve the problem, because as you know that we are inexperienced. Inexperienced for when Indonesian time – Indonesian time, we have no skills. For example in the independence movement they have no skills to run the country. And now we have to say to everyone that, you know, no violence and we hope that, you know, the problem will be solved by our leaders.

Monica Attard: Do you think they can solve it?

Naldo Rei: Yes, I believe. Because why we have to live in the horror in our situation, and we need peace in this country, and we need the development in this country. We have a bright future. That's what we fought for. The young generation will restore peace and stability in East Timor.

Monica Attard: And that was Naldo Rei, a child resistance fighter of East Timor.

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