Indonesia's former chief peace negotiator in Aceh agrees that now is the best, perhaps the only, chance for a peaceful end to the 30 year conflict. Wiryono Sastrohandoyo is a former Ambassador to Australia and was Indonesia's chief negotiator in ceasefire talks with the Free Aceh rebels in 2002. The ceasefire's ultimate failure led to the imposition of martial law resulting in many arrests and deaths in the years following.

Presenter/Interviewer: Karon Snowdon

Speakers: Wiryono Sastrohandoyo, former Indonesia Ambassador to Australia and former chief negotiator in Aceh peace talks.

Snowdon: Indonesia's President Susilo Bambang Yudhoyono insists a permanent peace should be possible in the northern province where a civil war has cost an estimated 12,000 lives. He says after the tsunami the Acehnese people are not interested in conflict or in supporting rebels, but want to rebuild.

The military crackdown ordered by former President Megawati in 2003, when Yudhoyono was her security minister, has been held responsible for serious abuses, torture and disappearances accompanied by a virtual media blackout. Even since the tsunami and while a tentative ceasefire was meant to be in place, reports emerged of an ongoing and opportunistic campaign by the military against suspected Free Aceh Movement or GAM members.

Yet the first two meetings in Helsinki between the Government and the self-exiled representatives of GAM are progress in themselves. The third meeting expected soon will tell if there's enough common ground.

Wiryono Sastrohandoyo served as Indonesian Ambassador to Australia for four years from 1996 and was the government's chief negotiator during the 2002 peace talks. He says the role of the military is diminishing but the determination to retain Indonesia's unity is strong throughout the whole society.

Wiryono: I'd like to believe that there has been a change and I think basically the military's role is diminishing. But Indonesia is a young nation and whether it was the 1948 or the 1965 rebellion by the communists, we always crush them. So this crush mindset is there, because we want to keep the nation intact.

Snowdon: So why do you think there's a better chance of success this time around?

Wiryono: Because military operation is not going to resolve the problem. It is a war yes, but it is a war to win the hearts and mind of the people.

Snowdon: The military wasn't winning hearts and minds, if I can interject here.

Wiryono: I understand.

Snowdon: It in fact was hated in Aceh?

Wiryono: Yes, I think it is a problem of implementing an overall strategy, of strengthening the local government, of strengthening the rule of law, and improvement in the social-economic life. You see there is a lot of people in Aceh who are hungry, so my optimism is based on the long-term prospectives... because military operations will not solve the problem.

Snowdon: But in 2003, after the collapse of the process, there was a very sudden or a very quick, strong response by the government and the military with a massive military campaign. Could the same happen again if these current round of talks are unsuccessful?

Wiryono: It's off and on, you know, like in Palestine, even in Northern Ireland. They are talking to each other in Helsinki and I think that that is a sign of hope, if not optimism.

Snowdon: Ambassador Wiryono believes if peace talks are unsuccessful, the former general President Yudhoyono, will be extremely reluctant to restart military actions in Aceh.

Wiryono: The President is a very decent man and he understands the risk of a military operation, that once war is launched, the statesman who launched this war is not anymore (the) master of policy but become the slave of unpredictable and uncontrollable events.

Snowdon: Ambassador Wiryono who is visiting Australia, says Australia's humanitarian response to the December tsunami has speeded up the improvement in the bi-lateral relationship.

As for prosecuting the military top brass for its dirty business dealings in Aceh and the human rights abuses there, he is less optimistic and says another two or three elections – that's a decade or two, will pass before the rot of corruption is gone, adding democracy is a slow process.

Wiryono: In a situation like that, forces, or I might call it dark forces, that want to return to the old style can still be in operation.

Snowdon: Are they still strong in Indonesia?

Wiryono: I like to believe that it is weakening.

Snowdon: President Yudhoyono doesn't have the luxury of time however when it comes to the murder investigation currently underway into the death of prominent human rights activist Munir. He died on board a Garuda flight to Amsterdam last year and was widely thought to be close to publishing details of the military's dealings in Aceh.

Wiryono: It is a test case, yes, and I hope that they are going to be serious about it. If this one is not exposed, I think their reaction will be very strong. And the president has committed himself to be very forceful in this and they've allowed the questioning of some members of the government.

Snowdon: Are you confident that the real culprits will be brought to book and it won't be a whitewash?

Wiryono: I'd like to be confident, but yes I'm still very uncertain sometimes, to be frank, but we need to resolve it clearly otherwise Indonesia has a bad image in human rights and to change the image you have to change the realities. Otherwise we are not credible.